birth and PND

[olive]

if you had a dissapointing or traumatic birth did you get PND??
if you had subsequent births that were empowering did you get PND??

just wondering how many feel that their dissapointing or traumatic contributed to them getting PND and if having an empowered birth resulted in no PND.

i know i had a dissapointing first birth and feel that it contributed greatly to me getting PND but having a fantastic birth second time resulting in no PND has me thinking!

what are your thoughts?

[~Leasha~]

I think birth related stress could have a huge impact on PND. I can't say from experience though. I have only had one birth which I found traumatic, and PND following that.

[tellytubby]

Not sure AJP, interesting thoughts though

FWIW i had a traumatic birth with DD and did not have PND

[BellyBelly]

Yes there are studies that show traumatic or disappointing births result in higher PND and PTSD. Unfortunately, more of those kinds of births are going around, so we need to work hard to empower and educate each other so we can avoid this happening, because no-one else will...

[Butterfly Child]

I agree i had a traumatic birth experience where i when giving birth to DD( who was 10lb) i slipped the l4 l5 and s1 discs, in my back which compounded on my sciatic nerves in my back causing leg weakness etc, even 7 months down the track surgery may be the only way to fix it and im in constant pain every day from it, i think that has deffinetly impacted on me coping emotionally and caused a slight case of PND for me but i think other factors in my life have had a bigger impact tbh. ( Coping as a young single parent)

[Lady Zaidie]

Trauma, no PND just PTSD and regular depression that was untreated for many, many years until post-DS.

Originally Posted by BellyBelly

Yes there are studies that show traumatic or disappointing births result in higher PND and PTSD. Unfortunately, more of those kinds of births are going around, so we need to work hard to empower and educate each other so we can avoid this happening, because no-one else will...

I disagree. We don't need to educate and empower each other, we need to educate and dis-empower or dis-power-trip those sodding idiots who call themselves carers. The midwives and Obs who treat you as a number not a free woman no matter how educated or empowered you are. Bullies and small people the lot of them. They need the rug pulled from under them MORE than we need to be empowered... you can be educated and empowered for the first time in labour, but you can be disempowered there too. No matter what you do.

[anna]

I had a great birth experience, which saved me from PND I think...so yes, I would say there is a connection

[Becs_bubs]

I had some PTSD after a traumatic birth with #2. So did hubby - hearing the ob say that they were losing me after a PPH...it threw him into shock big time. The first few months were filled with lots of crying and just feeling gutted, really, for both of us. My GP was fantastic and would let me talk and ask questions as long as I needed (it's like I was really insecure and questioned lots of stuff I already KNEW, but needed reassurance, if you know what I mean?) and DH and I spent a lot of time when the kids were asleep just talking and cuddling and crying together.

I had a reasonably traumatic experience the first time, too, but didn't suffer any ill effects from that, so it will be interesting to see what happens this time....fingers crossed I don't HAVE a traumatic experience this time, tho! And then I will be able to compare with that, as well.

[DaintreeDream]

I can't say I had a traumatic birth, although I did end up with a CS, I felt that it was really important to have that first breastfeed when baby was born and to allow us to bond (with DH) for a while before introducing to other family/friends, turns out she needed to be taken straight to NICU and she was transfered at 10 days into the city, an hour away where she stayed until she was 3 months old also undergoing major facial surgery. For me it was the time after her birth until she came home that would be classified as traumatic however I did not suffer and PND or PTSD.

I just thought I would add my story from a different angle.

[Pish]

I had a lot of complications following a 3rd deg tear after having DD and yep, ending up with PND. It wasn't until DD was about 6 months old that there was a real problem, but it did all stem from the amount of problems I was having 'down there' post birth. Thank fully with the support of my gorgeous hubby, and my faily as well as the love for my baby girl, I got through it and I hope to goodness it doesn't ever happen again!

[Cassius2]

i too had a rather traumatic birth experience and also had PND. it wasnt until much later on, when i finally met a good psychologist that i was able to see that it was a PTSD as a result of the birth that was triggering the PND. it was a HUGE breakthrough for me and recovery followed relatively quickly as we were able to focus on the trauma of the birth and work through those issues in particular ITMS.

it is one of the reasons that i will work very very hard to have my next birth far far away from a hospital setting.

[becstarr79]

I had a very traumatic birth, although I couldn't say whether I suffered from PND or not (I suffer from anxiety anyway so I've probably put it down to that) but I would say that I'm more likely to have suffered from PTSD, I still don't think I've 'over' it yet, but over time it's getting better. I'm working very hard (i.e. seeing a psychologist about anxiety related matters), and plan to do things completely differently next time, to ensure I don't go through what I went through the first time.

[mamasmurf]

I really have to agree with Lady Zaidie`s comment regarding empowerment. I had a horrible birth with complications afterwards and I feel like the initial response from carers was "suck it in."
I was even yelled at by one midwife and I`d hardly said boo to a goose in hospital in spite of my bad experience.
The icing on the cake was ridiculously bad follow up care where the GP ignored my physical problems and just assumed I had PND because i was tired, gave me bad advice regarding feeding and failed to refer me on to appropriate practitioners. In the end I couldn`t be bothered to explain that in a situation where you are in grave danger of losing your life even when you`re in hospital is traumatising and ideally that should be addressed immediately much like a victim of an accident needs trauma counselling.
How much expertise and experience do these people really have?
Over time I feel that I have healed myself and I will never allow myself to feel so powerless again. It`s such a shame that even though one of the tenets of healthcare is to look at patients from a holistic viewpoint and few professionals ever do.If more practical help was given to those of us who suffer traumatic births in the period post delivery it might
give some time for us to deal with our feelings rather than neglecting that side of things because we feel that we should just "get on with it"

[~Leanne~]

Just a thought: doesn't alot of depression/anxiety conditions have a great deal to do with chemical imbalances? That's what my drs and psych have advised me.

I had PND really badly after DD and my birthing experience was not bad at all really - though she was a handful as a baby.

Again, just a thought.

[Falguni]

Leanne- Yes it absolutely does. Depression is something that is not fully understood, but it is believed there are different influencing factors like environment(events such as birth), your genes (it is believed to be genetic in some cases), and biology (your brain chemistry).
A traumatic event can be the initial cause or a catalyst. The chemicals get all out of whack and then it cascades from there, spiraling down.
This is why someone can have a traumatic birth but not get PND but another person can.

I had a pretty traumatic first birth and had no PND, second time round i had the most amazing birth but other traumatic events going on which led to a little PND.

I don't think there is a magical equation that says traumatic birth = PND, but if you have any traumatic experience it would certainly increase your risk of depression.

[maz]

very interesting thread

Would tramatic pg be considered then as a factor???

I fully agree with tramatic circumstances around the time, even jsut after the birth would contribute....with situations taking hold that you have no control over.

I also believe that once the stress of a tramatic birth has subsided or the danger of an outcome of a tramatic birth has passed, PND can creep, even over a year later

[Cassius2]

totally reckon Maz. my psych told me that i should look at ALL the events that surrounded the birth and arrival of Leila to help her get a picture of contributing factors (this was before the birth trauma was pinpointed). things like having traumatic events (like death in the family etc) and even things that at the time may have seemed 'normal' but were disruptive and/or caused stress (like moving house, renovating, new job etc).

because of my history of having had PND, for any subsequent baby, i will have to put together a strategy plan to work in correlation with the maternity care-provider, my psychologist, DH and my family and part of this includes minimising disruptive factors (like moving house, new job stuff...which we also had to contend with last time).

anyway, i have rambled in my jet-lagged state more than enough today!

[~Leanne~]

This is very interesting indeed - learning lots here.... Thanks AJP for getting the brain ticking...