sleep patterns at 4.5 months?

[tenar]

DD is 4 and a half months already (wow, that went fast!). She's so different now to when she was a newborn that I'm starting to wonder whether we need to gradually shift our approach to settling her to sleep, so as to avoid potential problems later. I'd apppreciate any general comments or suggestions about our sleep strategies. In general, she's a good sleeper during the night and an iffy one during the day.

I'm not interested in any strategies that might cause her separation distress.

So, at the moment she sleeps overnight from about 7pm to about 2-5am (it varies when she wakes up). She usually has one feed sometime between 2.30 and 5am and then goes back to sleep until about 7am. She's gradually working earlier with this, I think, so now more likely to go to sleep before 7 and wake before 7. I'd like to work her back later so she sleeps in a little longer, but I don't know how to do this and I can accept if this is how she is that's how she is at the moment.

When she's sick or whatever she wakes more often at night, needs more feeds, and is harder to settle. This is OK by me.

In the daytime she sleeps several times during the day (roughly every 2-3 hours), for 20-45 minutes at a time. It is usually impossible to settle her back to sleep longer than that, though yesterday and occasionally she settles down again and sleeps for an hour or longer.

Our settling strategy at the moment is to sit by her, or lie beside her (she's in a "co-sleeper cot" beside our bed) and give her a finger to hold onto until she falls asleep. It seems to me that increasingly, she likes to "play" in her cot, so she gets all excited and babbly, and plays with her dummy or our hands. Sometimes she seems to work herself up rather than calm down. We sing to her, but this seems to me to not work as well for settling her as it used to. Patting her doesn't work at all. Sometimes it takes a long time for her to settle like this, other times it's fast. It is very rare for us to be able to leave her in there awake and go out for a minute and have her fall asleep on her own.

Just occasionally, she gets really upset when we put her down, she cries and so on. Sometimes she wakes up upset too - nightmares maybe? We always pick her up when she's distressed. I figure this is just part of the deal, and I'm not worried about this.

So my worries or questions are:

- should she be able to fall asleep on her own by now? My MCHN certainly seems to think so, but I'm not sure how we can teach her this?

- what can we do to make our settling methods more calming, rather than getting gradually more exciting to her?

- at what age can you start to introduce a comfort object so that the baby can learn to cuddle that rather than cuddling you? Does this work? Is it good to do?

- are we going to have to be there to put her to sleep every time for the next umpteen years? I'm hoping to avoid this if possible (as long as done in a safe, secure way, etc). The amount of time we spend at it is a worry to me, as if/when we have another baby we won't be able to spend so much time settling DD.

Any comments or suggestions? Am I expecting too much for this age? I don't have a basis for comparison, but I'd really like to get it as right as possible, both now and in the future.

[Ozziehoffy]

Originally Posted by tenar

So, at the moment she sleeps overnight from about 7pm to about 2-5am (it varies when she wakes up). She usually has one feed sometime between 2.30 and 5am and then goes back to sleep until about 7am. She's gradually working earlier with this, I think, so now more likely to go to sleep before 7 and wake before 7. I'd like to work her back later so she sleeps in a little longer, but I don't know how to do this and I can accept if this is how she is that's how she is at the moment.

Hun, to be honest, it all sounds perfectly normal for a bub her age. Her overnight sleeping sounds very similar to Elijah. He usually wakes somewhere from around 2:30ish up to 5:30 for a feed then back to sleep. If he wakes around the 2:30 mark then I'll need to feed him again around 5:30ish and he'll nap again til around 7ish. From memory, Oskar was very similar. Although I'm unsure if he slept more often than not until around the 5:30 mark.

Originally Posted by tenar

In the daytime she sleeps several times during the day (roughly every 2-3 hours), for 20-45 minutes at a time. It is usually impossible to settle her back to sleep longer than that, though yesterday and occasionally she settles down again and sleeps for an hour or longer.

Once again, completely normal. A bubs sleep cycle is roughly 45 mins. I don't generally get more than that out of Elijah during the day either. Mind you on days when I'm reaaaaaaally tired and want a nap he'll have a short sleep but if I'm ok and don't want a nap he'll have a great sleep around 2pm...lol

Originally Posted by tenar

It is very rare for us to be able to leave her in there awake and go out for a minute and have her fall asleep on her own.

VERY rare here too. I think he only does that if he zones out rather than working himself up. Don't worry about this though as they are only babies and it's very normal for them to not be able to do this on their own yet.

Originally Posted by tenar

So my worries or questions are:

- should she be able to fall asleep on her own by now? My MCHN certainly seems to think so, but I'm not sure how we can teach her this?

I seriously hate how some MCHN's make us feel doubt about what we're doing. You can't "teach" a baby as such. I really think it's about comfort for them. They're just so little and now have only been in the outside world for only half of the time they were tucked up in a beautiful, warm and comforting womb where they were rocked by movement so I don't find it surprising they don't fall asleep on their own.

Originally Posted by tenar

- what can we do to make our settling methods more calming, rather than getting gradually more exciting to her?

With Elijah, sometimes he likes to hold my finger too and I just use my thumb to gently stroke the top of his hand. You can also try stroking her forehead or even just placing your hand on her chest. Use gentle soothing shhhhhhhh sounds done quietly. If she's making a bit of noise you can do it louder then go quieter as she stops to listen. Sometimes too they're just not ready for sleep and maybe taking her out for 5 mins then going back would work.

Originally Posted by tenar

- at what age can you start to introduce a comfort object so that the baby can learn to cuddle that rather than cuddling you? Does this work? Is it good to do?

Oskar has always had a flat cloth nappy. This happened by accident as I always used one and had it on hand when feeding him in case he pulled off and milk was squirting or in case of little overflows and burping. He liked how it felt and to this day takes one to bed with him and he's almost 2 1/2 lol. The good thing about it is I can wash them and change them with no hassles Elijah has one too but not to bed at this stage.

Originally Posted by tenar

- are we going to have to be there to put her to sleep every time for the next umpteen years? I'm hoping to avoid this if possible (as long as done in a safe, secure way, etc). The amount of time we spend at it is a worry to me, as if/when we have another baby we won't be able to spend so much time settling DD.

You won't be putting her to sleep for that long lol. I know it feels like it but they go through so many different phases. With Oskar, he pretty much fed to sleep. It was really hard to rock him or hold him to sleep whereas Elijah is relatively easy to hold firmly and walk/rock him and have him go to sleep. Oskar I think must've been close to 2 before he really starting putting himself to sleep. Keep in mind that they have no concept of time and need to know you haven't left them.

Originally Posted by tenar

Any comments or suggestions? Am I expecting too much for this age? I don't have a basis for comparison, but I'd really like to get it as right as possible, both now and in the future.

If you ask me from what you've said... YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB!! You are meeting her needs and that's what it comes down to. Try not to worry about comparisons to other kids... they really are all very different. The fact that at the moment she wants you to help her is not a bad thing. She trusts you, she wants and needs you - it's all over in the blink of an eye even though it feels it will never end. Less than 2 years in the big picture is not long. Oskar was able to put himself to sleep whilst I was still pg with Elijah so the age gap for that worked really well. Oh and don't forget that the first bub you have the time more for doing what you're doing so the second I think just follows and fits in with things because they have to more than the first.

[anna]

Wow, great response Ozziehoffy!

Just wanted to say it is normal for babies to resist sleep, to wake in the night, to wake after 40mins, to need to be rocked/fed to sleep etc.

MCHN actually don't help IMO and the more I tried to take their advice the worse I felt.

Go with your gut. There is no such thing as a bad habit or even a "right" way. Your way is the best way because its your baby and you're a great mum!

[MantaRay]

I would also like to say great post Ozziehoffy. I second it!

Tenar, at around 4 months, it is very normal for babies to become more alert. They are becoming more aware of their surroundings and as a result it can be very hard to get them to sleep, and often even to stay still long enough to feed. This can be frustrating, but it is a good sign that she is developing well. I don't want to scare you, but around this time (or a bit later), night wakings can also increase. This is a period of rapid brain development and babies just seem to need extra feeds at night to cater for this. Also, as they start to learn new skills such as sitting, crawling and later standing, they start practising them when they stir rather than putting themselves back to sleep. It can be a tiring time, but I think part of the key to getting through is by accepting it as a necessary part of parenting, and the joy at seeing them growing up helps too.

I think the most common bad advice given to parents is "don't set up bad habits". I know I heard it many a time myself. It really is one of the most unfounded ideas though. Babies are too young to develop habits. They do things a certain way for a while, and then things change. It happens constantly. Babies who are fed, rocked, patted etc to sleep do not always need it. Even at a young age babies can distinguish between situations - a baby who needs to be bf to sleep at home will nearly always fall asleep just fine when mum isn't there. And at some stage they are perfectly happy to fall asleep without a feed anymore. In fact, studies and general experience show the reverse - the babies who are left to cry themselves to sleep are the ones who become toddlers and pre-schoolers who can't put themselves to sleep - because they don't have good associations with bed and sleep. Whereas my boys who were bf to sleep and never left to cry (and many more like them!) go to sleep very easily now - and have for a very long time. Often if we are running a bit late with dinner they will even get up from the table when they are finished and put themselves to bed!

You are doing a really awesome job hun. Keep up the great work, and don't worry about what anyone else says. Trust your instincts - they've done very well for you for this far!

[satya]

My son slept through the night from 12 weeks. He self settled. It may have been luck or it may have been because he was put to bed with a dummy. Not sure. He was a very unsettled baby in the SCN until he had a dummy & then he was a placid baby from that moment on.

Whenever I've had trouble settling him I usually give him a bottle & put his Leap Tad on the night time music mode for 10 minutes. This almost always works.

Not sure if you are using bottles or a dummy but if they aren't to your taste I would certainly suggest using music. It's far easier than singing.....there's only so many times you can sing Twinkle Twinkle (or whatever it is you sing) before you get sick of it

[anna]

Originally Posted by MantaRay

I think the most common bad advice given to parents is "don't set up bad habits". I know I heard it many a time myself. It really is one of the most unfounded ideas though. Babies are too young to develop habits. They do things a certain way for a while, and then things change. It happens constantly.

Totally agree! Also the concept of having a "right" way seems to be putting them in bed with eyes wide open all the time. In all honesty, I got sucked into the theory that if they self settle they will sleep better, but while it did improve things in the instance, I have since found DD sleeps the same whether she is rocked/fed or self settles. And she has NEVER slept through the night.

Life is too short to be worrying about what MCHN and others have to say. You do things the way you want!