I don't know what to do

[Bathsheba]

Sounds like he might be having trouble "switching off" his thoughts allowing him to sleep... in this case listening to a talking book might help... I know that I sometimes have trouble switching off as well and "need" the beside radio turned on... to Radio National's News radio. At that time of night someone is usually droning on about the conflict in the Middle East... very soporific (not to down play the seriousness of the conflict in that part of the world).

[Jennifer13]

FJ I have to say I don't actually agree with Super Nanny's use of the naughty corner, so I can understand why you've decided it doesn't work! I think it's overused and simplistic and doesn't actually connect the discipline with the behaviour. The only time it should be used is when they're so out of control that they need to calm down by being physically removed. Sounds like Evan is more verbal and obstinate than physically out of control. Using it sparingly also makes it more effective from what I've seen.

If the chart works well for the morning, I'd suggest trying it for the night time routine as well. I know you say he's good at getting in bed and then can't sleep, how good is the wind-down routine to get there? And while it works to keep him up 'cause DH isn't home until late, I think the fact you're having trouble getting him going in the morning (maybe not waking him, but actually getting action!) is an indication that he needs to go down earlier, for his sake. If it takes him a while to fall asleep, better to be in bed at 7:30 or 8 and asleep by 8 or 8:30 than 9:30. He's going to have trouble controlling his behaviour if he's tired. I suspect you might need a break a bit earlier than then too, so you and DH can have quiet time together...

[Katiegirl]

Hi - I just wanted to add that my nephew whilst not quite the handful that Evan is, can also be very difficult to control at home but all reports from school is that he is the perfect student. He is now 10 and I admit that I struggle with him at times. My sister sees a lot of herself in him - in that she was probably what people these days would call 'hyperactive', so I think sometimes she washes over his behaviour. I once told him to pick up a towel he had thrown on the floor to have my sister say in front of him 'You do not need to tell my children what to do' - so of course he repeats that whenever I ask (or tell) to stop something. It is infuriating!!! The fact that he can control his behaviour at school shows he knows how to control himself and chooses not to when at home.

My sister and her DH use a point system (and this goes for his brother as well) - he has been told that for each time he is naughty etc he receives a point - if he gets to 20 or so points he won't be allowed something. This can even be something huge like a birthday party. It is probably more encouraging if he got a point for 'good' behaviour but that doesn't really seem to register with him - so knowing he has 15 points and only another 5 to go before he loses something he wants (like the party or going to a movie etc) it does seem to make him stop and think. He is the loveliest child and so affectionate but my goodness he knows exactly how to wind me up!!!

I think stopping the pocket money and making him earn his treats is a great idea. It has started to drive me insane with my nephew 'expecting' me to buy him things - he now has a habit of saying 'you can buy me this or that'. It stems from me spoiling him and his siblings rotten when they were younger and I was single (and had more money than sense obviously). I think you are doing a great job and should not be too hard on yourself.

[*Efjay*]

Yesterday afternoon was good. Came home, had some afternoon tea with out too much fuss, Ate his dinner with little fuss etc. But then gave DH a bit of a hard time in bed, not to sure what was going on as I was dealing with Isla.

This morning was hard again. Dh had an early start so was gone by 7. I pretty much dragged Evan out of bed only to be kicked & hit then he took himself back to bed. I did my best to ignore it, carried on with what needed to be done to get everyone else ready & let Evan know his school clothes are ready or when I am ready to leave he will be put int he car & his clothes in a bag.
He kept saying he was thinking (about what he wanted to take for news) to which I went in again pulled him up & out of bed & said he can think about that while he gets dressed. Offered him toast to take in the car on the way etc.

I don't know if this was the right or wrong thing to have done but I couldn't help it. He hit me again & | just cried. I told him that I really don't like when he behaves this way & it makes me very sad. I love him but I don't like him when he is naughty. He got a little teary & said that I was being nasty not him. Eventually he got dressed (with help) and then while I regained myself in the bathroom while brushing my teeth etc, he got the toast out & ready in thte toaster & was a different kid.
When we got to school I gave him a hug told him I loved him & to please try & be be better behaved when he comes home this afternoon.

Jennifer - Bed time is hard. No matter how early we go in so say I do bring it forward to 7.30, he will then lay there till 9.30. Its not a matter of it taking an hour to wind down (so in at 8.30 asleep by 9.30) He just doesn't seem able to switch off till after 9.30. Believe me we have tried earlier time slots. It just makes no difference.

Usually teh bed time routine isn't too bad, we have our nights were getting him to put his PJs on etc is a much around but overall I would say its no worse thenthe next person. He tries alot of stalling (im hungry, thirsty etc etc) but usually its pretty stock standard.

Also making bed time earlier would be hard, I would need to be with him till he was asleep, but if I start this before DH is home, I then also have Isla to deal with who also doesn't go down till 8.30.

I know our bed time is alot later then alot of kids but I don't know how I could make it work doing it earlier.

We need to get him going to sleep on his own but in order to do that I need 2 parents here, I can't put the time needed to help evan become a good sleeper while I have 2 (soon 3) other children to care for at the same time.

Im going to do some ring around & see what help I can find locally.

eta - well I am at dead end... local parent line is for up to 3yrs, gave me the number for Karitane which is for kids up to 5.
I will try the triple p consultant that is closest to me but its a number for a Dr surgery so I bet I will just be asked to make an appointment for a time I wont be able to get too....

[Jennifer13]

Originally Posted by FionaJill

I know our bed time is alot later then alot of kids but I don't know how I could make it work doing it earlier.

We need to get him going to sleep on his own but in order to do that I need 2 parents here, I can't put the time needed to help evan become a good sleeper while I have 2 (soon 3) other children to care for at the same time.

Im going to do some ring around & see what help I can find locally.

I don't think anybody could do it on their own. Is there any chance DH could take a few days off work to sort this out with you? If you had a weekend and a few extra days there's a chance you might be able to get Evan in the habit of a new routine. It sounds like you really need DH to help you out...

You are doing a good job to manage three kids while you are pg and I hope this is just a small bump in the road!

[*Efjay*]

Ok just off the phone with a triple p lady. reassured me that this is somewhat normal.
Said that this behaviour is usually linked to insecurity = lack of a solid schedule.
So I am going to work on bed time, bring it forward & stager out who goes down first etc.
Pocket money will stop & be replaced with 20c each night for good behaviour that he can collect to then spend if he likes.
a chart (as planned)
limited tv/pc time.
possibly separating the boys ( Glenn will sleep better then Evan so evan may need his own room, so not to disturb glenn while we get this happening)
telling evan what makes me sad, not his "behaviour" but what exactly ie: hitting me, name calling etc
Be his mum not his friend

She also agreed that DH's approach is not helping at all. Which I will have to convince Simon to be a part of the new rules & stick with me on it. I think it will be hard but as she said if I don't fix this now, its going to get worse.

I need to retrain not only Evan but myself also.. There is a loose schedule to which things are done but I don't stick to it day after day. I need to promise myself to be more strict with myself for this to work.

[*Efjay*]

Well fat lot of good building up the strength to call someone for help did.
I started telling DH about the suggested things to try & pretty mcuh straight off the bat he think its wont work its not worth it. When will he get time for him. He doesn't get home till7/7.30 some nights, and as soon as walks in we are putting kids to bed, when will he eat blah blah blah.

off to go secretly cry a bit more

[christy]

Without the help from your DH it will be hard. I know a few friends whose partners come home at 7pm and put the kids to bed with a cuddle and a book and bed straight away. They make sure they have one on one activities on the weekends with the children. Its not easy, but it was the only way for the kids.

its all I can say/do atm.

[Falguni]

Oh FJ, you poor thing. It's so hard without support. Sometimes when men (and women i guess) think that they may be a little to blame, they get very defensive of ideas on how to fix things.

Maybe he needs some time to think about it. And perhaps ask him, if he is not willing to try what the experts recommend, then what is his solution? You are ready to try anything, but you NEED to do SOMETHING and you need his help.

[*Efjay*]

once the kids are asleep we will talk again. I know I wont be able to get though it all with out crying so I would rather wait till they have gone to bed. He didn't even hear me out. We can adjust the suggestions to suit us more but he needs to realise that yes he has a routein for them as far as bed goes, its not helping me in the mornings.

I think he just needs to realise that he has grown up, its now our children's turn & we need to provide whats going to be best for them to grow up right. sacrifices will need to be made on both our part.

[Jennifer13]

Hope you guys managed a good talk last night. It sounds like he really loves his kids and feels bad about not spending more time with them. If that's his motivation then I'm sure he will want to help you wth what's best for them. Good luck! (PS I can't get through any discussion when I'm mildly upset with my DP without crying and I'm not pg!)

[*Efjay*]

I've started a blog to keep track of the progress.
We did have a chat last night & I didn't cry! LOL I sat on the couch knitting (hehehe how nanna sounding of me) listening to DH yell at Evan & Evan yelling back.
When he eventually came out he sat down & was willing to talk. I tol dhim I am not laying the blam on him, I didn't call this women & ***** about everything I think DH does that is wrong. I called for help just like he told me to & It took alot for me to do that & it was really hurtful that he just dismissed it. I said I could understand if I sat there saying I spoke to the lady at the post office & she said blah blah blah etc. But I didn't I called a parenting help line & spoke with someone who is trained to HELP. Yes her suggestions may not suit us to a T but we need to work with those suggestions & make them work for us.

Yes he has a bed time routine but its not helping me any in the mornings. Evan has insecurities, we already suspected this as he says odd things we think is his way of saying Im confused or unsure etc. Like the other night he told DH that it upsets him when I say I am going put spiders on his head! I have never said that or anything like that. DH & Evan both have a real phobia of spiders so why on earth would I torment Evan like that.

Things suggested were to

Limit TV/PC to one hour in the afternoons = our agreement is no TV once Dinner is on the table & only 20 minutes or so in the mornings, it goes off once he is finished breakfast or at 8am which ever comes first.
My reason for not limiting it in the afternoon as such is when I am on m y own & trying to get Dinner ready by a set time, I need something to amuse the kids. Its too cold to play outside atm so TV goes off as sDinner hits the table.

Set dinner time = have agreed that dinner is to be on the table at 6, no later then 6.30. We will sit at the table & sit in our spot each night. No musical chairs.

Glenn to bed at 7.15, Evan to bed at 7.30 = This was our main disagreement. We have agreed that this sort of time is unrealistic for us. We have agreed that Bed time will be 8pm for Both boys By 8pm I mean LIGHTS OUT. Story etc will take place before 8pm.

We *may* work on Glenn going in a little earlier so Evan & DH can have one more story together. We may also Give evan his own room & Glenn & Isla share. No one needs to share really but I also don't think there is a need to spread everyone out. I don't know if this will help Evan at all as I think he needs to share more then Glenn. But we will play with that one a little once we get things a little more normal. Baby steps for now.

Leaving Evan to sleep on his own = We agreed this wont work to jump into cold turkey. It will cause to much stress on everyone & upset bed time ALOT. So we will work towards this. Starting with DH sitting on a chair in their room rather then laying with them in bed. Then occasionally getting up & coming out to say "brush his teeth" then popping his head back in. Cmoing out again to do something then popping back in again. making longer & longer between him going back. Hopefully we can work towards then staying in bed when DH comes out if they are still awake.

No Pocket money= Have agreed to make a chart & each morning & evening is worth 50c. He will be given this 50c at the time of completing the morning/evening with no fuss. At the end of the week if he managed a good week he will have $5, or less if he mucked up a day. His choice on how much he gets depending on his behaviour. This will also be in place for Glenn.

I am also going to help him open a bank account. I think he wil actually prefer to put his money in there then spend it. He likes to own things, so the bank account & charts will be his things, he will control them so I think he will strive to use them.

Yesterday I told Evan we will have some new rules & he actually got upset (yelling hitting etc) when I said we will start them next week as we need to get a few things first. he wanted to do it NOW. Kept on that Glenn had to go to bed etc. But yeah, we will work on it.

This morning was good, he got up (eventually) with little fuss & got ready & on time to catch the bus .

Feeling better today thats for sure!

[christy]

Sounds like great strategies

[mollycat]

Fiona Jill - I just wanted to say congratulations on taking back your life. You have some great strategies there. Well done. You've made the first and second step. 1. you acknowledged you needed help - and you went and got it. 2. You have made the first start on changing routines around your house.

It's not going to be easy - some days will be better then others. But IN THE END it will be so worth it.

Good luck and all the best. REMEMBER you are a great mum