Birth Rights Rally in September: Who's Coming & Co-ordinators

[Schmickers]

Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer

I'm somewhat uncomfortable being a devils advocate here but reading the article and as a Registered Nurse and Paramedic, I feel I have to......

With respect, Stretcher Bearer, I think you fail to understand some of the politics behind the decision to make indemnity insurance a requirement to practice as a midwife.

Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer

So the cause should be to force legislation for reasonable indemnity insurance.

This is correct.

Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer

Caesareans aren't done at home last time I looked. Choice isn't the issue. Adequate financial coverage is.

But surely you understand that, without that adequate insurance cover and therefore, under the new legislation, the right to practice, the choice of women in Australia IS limited? What do you think would happen, in 2009, if the last of the southern hemisphere medical insurers withdrew cover for OBs in private practice? Do you think the government would simply say "tough luck, no more private obstetrics?" Do you think obstetricians in private practice would accept that decision?

Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer

Every one is happy until something sadly goes wrong and a poor midwife is sent into financial ruin because of inadequate insurance covering legal action.

That is a risk to no one - NO ONE - but the midwife concerned. It does not impact on her practice, or her ability to provide safe and competent care.

Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer

The terms Registered Nurse and Midwife are protected titles so that isn't new. Registration is one thing, insurance to practice outside and hospital again harps back to adequate affordable insurance.

Answer me this. Do you stop being a paramedic when you leave your workplace? Are you still a paramedic at home? Do you suddenly switch off your knowledge and skills outside of the workplace because you are no longer covered by insurance?

To suggest that midwives cannot call themselves midwives and acknowledge their years of training simply because outside of the hospital system they are not insured is insulting to midwives.

And another question - if you, as a paramedic, come upon someone in medical distress in public, when you are not on duty, are you ethically bound to offer assistance to the best of your skills and abilities? If so, is that as a paramedic, or as an untrained bystander?

You don't just stop being what you are trained to be because you are not insured.

Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer

It's about affordable insurance

... the lack of which limits the choice of Australian women who want to have a safe homebirth with a trained practitioner.

Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer

Birthing is a collaboration. The new law hasn't even been passed, yet the wrong message has been sent.

I wonder if you could clarify what you mean here? I'm not sure I follow you. Birthing is a collaboration. One which will not be able to happen when one of the people collaborating is risking a $30,000 fine.

Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer

Burying this amongst emotive rhetoric will have a negative effect. I appreciate the opportunity for home births having attended a few. I am also well aware of when things sadly go wrong and in a very big way. It is very easy for the happy partnership to disintegrate when clients look for an outcome legally.

Does anyone know the last time a homebirth midwife, in Australia, was succesfully sued by a client? This statement alone is indicative that you share the position of the government - that homebirth is in some way riskier than hospital birth or birth with a private obstetrician, and that therefore midwives need to be prevented from putting themselves at financial risk. That completely ignores that facts that a) independently practicing midwives are happy to take that financial risk because they are passionate about providing Australian women a safer alternative to birthing in hospitals, and b) that there is any increase in risk, when in fact, if appropriate screening and admission criteria are in place, the opposite is true.

Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer

I hope a successful outcome is reached for those who seek homebirths.

And for those who have chosen to make a career out of providing them.


On a personal note, I wish I could be there marching with you all, but with a brand new baby, I just can't. I'll be with you in spirit.

[kelebek]

ust wondering if anyone will be travelling through xxxx to get to canberra to go? and if they would have room for an adult and toddler? (we can supply our own car seat)

[BellyBelly]

I think its a great idea to share transport up there, shame there will be difficulty with those who have little ones, cos we could all hop on a bus and go up there as a group... I'm thinking of spending the weekend there, then have the Monday off work for myself and my partner and come home that day...

[BellyBelly]

Oh and about those coments of homebirters becoming emotive about this issue... for goodness sakes... if your choice of birth was taken away from you, you'd be pretty upset too. Imagine if the obstetric insurance fell through again and they said no more caesareans until it's sorted out... who'd be creating then? Masses of the population because 1/3 babies are now born via c/s. Just because it's a major choice doesn't mean everything else deserves to be ignored or taken away. I would be devistated if I couldnt find a midwife to attend my homebirth. Its been a dream of mine since I had my first two.. a beautiful, nurturing birth... and to have that swept under my feet, I reserve every right to be upset and emotive, as does everyone else, including the profession who will lose their livelihood.

[Kazbah]

Kell - will you be starting a thread of "from melbourne" etc?

[BellyBelly]

Here we go these links should all work...

VIC
NSW & ACT
QLD
SA, NT, TAS & WA

[Stretcher Bearer]

With respect, Stretcher Bearer, I think you fail to understand some of the politics behind the decision to make indemnity insurance a requirement to practice as a midwife.

The politics is the problem. The battle between Midwife and Obstetrician has been going for years. Nurses from most significant specialties have battled with their Medical counter parts. Midwives until recently have been the only real independent practitioners though. With Nurse Practitioners, the playing field has been broadened.

But surely you understand that, without that adequate insurance cover and therefore, under the new legislation, the right to practice, the choice of women in Australia IS limited? What do you think would happen, in 2009, if the last of the southern hemisphere medical insurers withdrew cover for OBs in private practice? Do you think the government would simply say "tough luck, no more private obstetrics?" Do you think obstetricians in private practice would accept that decision?

It's not just the choice of women, it's the choice of parents (reagrdless of Gender) for starters. Everything requires insurance to operate from Body Corporates to tradespeople. The insurance is required so the argument needs to be affordability and adequate coverage as the impetace for challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretcher Bearer
Every one is happy until something sadly goes wrong and a poor midwife is sent into financial ruin because of inadequate insurance covering legal action.

That is a risk to no one - NO ONE - but the midwife concerned. It does not impact on her practice, or her ability to provide safe and competent care.

Unfortunately is does impact on everyone. Insurance prices drive fees. Insurers in the indeminty field base their coverage on risk. The midwifery profession (including the male midwives) needs to establish in their argument that the ability to provide safe practice is worthy of risk and subsequently reaosnable fees and coverage. Litigation unfortunately does affect practice in health care.

Answer me this. Do you stop being a paramedic when you leave your workplace? Are you still a paramedic at home? Do you suddenly switch off your knowledge and skills outside of the workplace because you are no longer covered by insurance?

To suggest that midwives cannot call themselves midwives and acknowledge their years of training simply because outside of the hospital system they are not insured is insulting to midwives.

And another question - if you, as a paramedic, come upon someone in medical distress in public, when you are not on duty, are you ethically bound to offer assistance to the best of your skills and abilities? If so, is that as a paramedic, or as an untrained bystander?

You don't just stop being what you are trained to be because you are not insured.

The argument isn't about switching off knowledge. When I am not at work in a hosptial as a Critically Care Trained RN or in Ambulance service, I have NO legislative coverage to practice outside the boundaries of a member of the public. At a prang, I am a first aider, and only receive coverage for my actions if my employer reinstates me to duty.

I have no ethical compliance to provide care as either a Registered Nurse or Paramedic, off duty. Particlularly if I can be sued for my actions and I don't have personal indemity insurance.

I never said that Midwives can't call themselves Midwives outside the hospital system. When you work in a hopsital, even independently in a birthing centre, your employer pays the insurance and wears the liability. If you are in your own business you wear the liability, then you pay the insurance.

Does anyone know the last time a homebirth midwife, in Australia, was succesfully sued by a client? This statement alone is indicative that you share the position of the government - that homebirth is in some way riskier than hospital birth or birth with a private obstetrician, and that therefore midwives need to be prevented from putting themselves at financial risk. That completely ignores that facts that a) independently practicing midwives are happy to take that financial risk because they are passionate about providing Australian women a safer alternative to birthing in hospitals, and b) that there is any increase in risk, when in fact, if appropriate screening and admission criteria are in place, the opposite is true.

Im talking about risk. Insurers make the assessment. If the government is still deciding that the risk is too high then, the arguments perhaps haven't been made the right way. Again, NO LAW HAS BEEN PASSED. I don't share alleged view of the Governement. What I am opposed to is over emotive campaigns the bury any real facts to acheive an outcome. The aim isn't about a safer alternative (an emotive caption on it's own) but simply another alternative. That implies that because we choosing to have our child in hospital things are less safe for us. However I guess we are safer because we will be in a family birthing centre ruh by Midwives.

There have been enough cases of apparent malpractice and negative outcomes form homebirths. It's all about suing, it's about risk. Home births despite being biologically sound (we've been doing them for millions of years) the aren't risk free.

I don't want this thread to degrade any further so my apologies to all, I've worked in the health care system for 20+ years in boith my qualfications so have seen a bit, hence my view. I just think that standing around beating chests isn't necessarily the best way forward.

[B]So all the best for the rallies. Hope to see Midwives out their doing what they do best.[/B]

[BellyBelly]

Thank-you, and can any further debate please be kept out of this thread, which is defeating the purpose of getting together so as consumers we can do what we do best - stand up for our own rights based on our own decisions and choices.

[marcellus]

So, there is only a rally in Canberra, right?
Maybe I'll just march around my loungeroom - it's a bit far for us to come. Hope it goes well though

[Antheia]

I'll be there with the kiddies. We'll be driving down.

[anna]

I'm going with DH and DD. Most likely flying...

[Julie Doula]

I will be there. I would be there to support women's choice if they invented ways to curtail women's rights to elective c/s, I will be there to support women's rights to choose homebirth. Regardless of any person's view of homebirth, which is largely informed by personal experience (I had three, they were great - all in other countries, so i know what it is like in a country where homebirth is funded and supported) - this is about choice. You can't arbitrarily remove a choice like that.

Kelly, what is the link of the facebook group? Ta.

No one is saying that homebirth is risk free. Hardly. Homebirth is as safe as birth gets. An 80% c/s rate, as in other countries where there is total obstetric dominance, is hardly risk free either. However, obstetric birth is not unfunded, unresourced, unsupported, and under threat of being driven underground. Giving medicare numbers and indemnity insurance to all midwives except for independent midwives who provide homebirth services is a backward step for Australia and a blow to all Australian birthers interested in having vaginal births, be it in hospitals, birth centres or at home.

In the short time I've been a doula, I have been present at 17 homebirths here in Victoria.
7 of those were first time mothers. Of these, 6 had their babies safely at home, with minimal or no tearing, and excellent apgars for the baby. One transferred to hospital, had epidural & synto and eventually a ventouse vaginal birth, baby born in excellent condition.
Of these 17, 9 of the babies were over 9 pounds, and one was 11 pounds.
Of these 17, 3 transferred to hospital during labour. Of these 3, one had an epidural, and pushed the baby out herself. Another had an epidural and a vaginal birth with the help of forceps. The other had an epidural, synto and a vaginal birth with the help of ventouse. All the babies were in good condition.
Of these 17, three were women having their first VBAC following a primary caesarean.
So this has been my experience so far.
Homebirths in Victorai has a 12% transfer rate and a 4% c/s rate. Research shows that the rate of infant deaths at homebirths is on par with deaths occuring in hospitals to low-risk women.
Regardless of people's views of whether or not homebirth is less/more safe, I can't accept that marginalising homebirth and driving it underground, and criminalising our homebirth midwives who are some of the most skilled careproviders we have, is in the best interests of birthing Australia.

It is worth fighting for.

[cookiemonster]

memememe hopefully.

[HellRazeD]

Kelly I had written a lovely long letter to Mr Rudd about this (Yes, Straight to the top!), and I have just some on my computer to find it gone. ****! Crap. Now I have to write another one. Vista is to unstable! I got a bluescreen error and it did that?!?? Never mind. Would you mind if I posted the FULL thing here when I manage to find it?


Regards, Serene

[BellyBelly]

Of course you can!! I have a Mac

Everyone else, make sure you post in our state by state threads, then we can all fly over together

[Mayaness]

Still planning my flights to see if I can co-ordinate with others who are going. I think I'll be organising my own flight now and organising a hotel room later to see if anyone wants in for that part.

[Kitt3n]

we will be there! DH, DD1, DD2 and myself!!

ok - is anyone else planning on staying the night?

[amysarah]

I will be there!! I will be driving over for the day by myself but hoping to meet up with my gorgeous BB girls while I'm there!!